Curse

Dametrus · Nov 13, 2005, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yamat

They aren't against farming. They're against solo farming of high end areas, especially since it is causing mass inflation.

This patch doesn't affect group farming at all. It affects solo farming.

Group farming is really just a waste of time IMO. The more people that you have the less you get. The less people you have the more you get. With ONE (solo) being the lowest number you get the most out of it. Why not just reverse the way that works. Make it where it is more rewarding to farm as a group. I don't mean make it where everyone comes out to be as rich as Ivincibuilds, but make it where it is more rewarding to be in a group. Just look at what has been done in the past to try and stop solo farmers. First, they played around with the drop rate (making it suck). This not only makes it not worth the farming but also increases the cost of ingame items. The less there is of a wanted item the higher the price. Then they nerf just a couple of spells to make it a little more difficult to solo farm. This seemed to have destroyed the UW Ivincimonk for just a little while, but as we have all seen it just made it where you had to tinker with the build a little more to get it to work right. Now, they have done something that not only affects the solo farmers, but anyone who has enjoyed the way of playing thus far. Seems a little backwards to me.

To ANET...(Like someone else has already stated) If you wanted PvE and PvP to be pretty much the same, then you should have started the game in this fashion.

There are plenty of people that play this game in the form of a normal RPG and don't even attempt to PvP. Is that wrong? If it was there would not have been a Sorrow's Furnace addition. Now sure, part of the reason for bringing the addition into the game was to bring in the "Green weapons" which gave Role-Playing chars the chance to be competitive in PvP with equalivent weapon power. But, along with the new weapons was a pretty nice size addition to the PvE part of the game, which got a lot of PvP'ers dusting off their old PvE chars. (Including myself)

As it has been said before, this patch was a bad idea. I can kinda see where you were going in trying to stop the solo farmers. I do not think that this patch had the full intentions of just increasing the intelligence of the mob. I think that instead of using a smoke screen to hide your true intentions on what you are doing, be straight forth in saying that you don't want solo farmers. Sure, there will be some pissed off people that may quit the game, but at least we will know what's really going on. Also, don't mess with spells that mess with the way of playing for everyone (mainly in PvE). Do something else like what I mentioned above about more group members...more /better drops. You could even call it the "More the Merrier Update."

Sorry to be so lengthy!!

Samueldg · Nov 14, 2005, 12:04 AM // 00:04

I think one of the worst effects of this patch is it pretty much KILLED trapper teams for UW...

taking a 6man trapper team into UW was risky, less people meant more chance of dieing and not trapping the smites.

the really PITA of it is a 6 man trapper team cant get spiders anymore.. everything runs out of traps.

rangers are a class already excluded from a large portion of pve play. ( no one thinks a ranger does a lot of damage with a bow and 16 marksmanship..

)

the ONE thing rangers could do en mass was cap spiders and farm UW... guess eles wherent the only ones hit..

calamitykell · Nov 14, 2005, 12:07 AM // 00:07

I think if there was some sort of multiplier for the rare-rate by group size. I haven't really started to think about specific numbers, but

right now when something drops there's a 2% chance it'll be rare (making up a number to demonstrate)

maybe work out an equation so that with a party of 8 people, there's a 10% or 15% chance it'll be rare when something drops. Don't change the drop rate in terms of: 60% gold, 30% collector item/salvage item, 10% weapon/offhand. Leave the weapon drops alone, but of those 10% weapon/offhand drops, increase the chance of rares dropping in that 10% from the creature.

By doing that, and keeping the current chance of drops being assigned to party members, shouldn't that be some kind of improvement? Obviously a griffon will only have a 10% chance of dropping an axe, and if you solo there's a 2% chance that axe will be rare. Gauge it up so with an 8 person party, a griffon has a 10% chance to drop an axe, and there's a 10, 15, or 20% chance it'll be rare.

I don't know, like I said, I haven't tried testing it out with numbers and running tests, and I'm too drained from writing a paper for Art History to do it at the moment, but it's a thought.

Ideas?

entropy · Nov 14, 2005, 12:48 AM // 00:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by calamitykell

They don't run from one-shot AoEs like Fireball, why would they run from my Shatter Hex? or Cry of Frustration? or Energy Surge?

Chain Lightning and Lightning Touch are one-shot AoEs. Whirlwind is a one-shot AoE KD. Unsure how Thunderclap is affected though, but I imagine they don't run just because they're knocked down.

Aftershock, Crystal Wave, Earthquake, Grasping Earth are all one-shot AoEs and no-shot AoEs, thus unaffected.

Eruption is affected, I believe.

Deep Freeze and Frozen Burst are one-shot AoEs and both snares.

Maelstrom is affected.

Except they don't.

I said, originally:
So no, it didn't screw up a lot more than I think.

Yep. I'd think you're pretty sure it didn't screw up a lot more than I think, as well. I appreciate your concern for my confidence though.

This could not be more wrong. They run from one hit aoe's test it. And don't tell me I didn't since I just did. A few skills that cause them to run. Throw dirt, Whirling defense, ignite arrows. They will run from one hit aoe's. You're wrong

calamitykell · Nov 14, 2005, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by entropy

This could not be more wrong. They run from one hit aoe's test it. And don't tell me I didn't since I just did. A few skills that cause them to run. Throw dirt, Whirling defense, ignite arrows. They will run from one hit aoe's. You're wrong

They run from 1-hit AoE's, yet stand in a Firestorm for a second or two? Hmm..

Grammar · Nov 14, 2005, 12:49 AM // 00:49

To be honest with you guys, I feel a little better about the update after the 11th tweak.

This is mainly because the added delay puts one-shot AOEs back in the picture for the most part (thank God).
The monster AI got a little better too; they finally do some actual avoiding instead of simply fleeing all the time. That said, the AI could definitely be further refined. It's still a little to erratic and chaotic whenever an AOE is cast.

I think I can adjust my elementalist to survive this.

My tank, however, will be the hardest hit. As soon as some idiot starts breaking out the duration AOEs (like firestorm), it gets ridiculously hard to tank as effectively as before. Like another user said, it turns into a game of pinball, chasing monsters around trying like crazy to get their aggro back on you.
One-shot AOEs I can deal with after the update, but people need to stop casting those damn duration AOEs now. All they do now is break monster aggro off the tanks and onto the casters.

entropy · Nov 14, 2005, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Well I guess aoe's in general that last 5 seconds have all been nerfed. In PvP they are useful in specialized situations suhc as balling up. Other than that I guess its the end. And this was after the 11th update btw.

Grammar · Nov 14, 2005, 12:56 AM // 00:56

"This could not be more wrong. They run from one hit aoe's test it. And don't tell me I didn't since I just did. A few skills that cause them to run. Throw dirt, Whirling defense, ignite arrows. They will run from one hit aoe's. You're wrong"

Not so much after the 11th tweak. After the 10th update, they preemtively ran from one-shot AOE like a plague was coming. After the 11th tweak it's not nearly as bad (from what I can tell anyway).

Periphery targets might still run away if the cast time is longer than the implemented delay (anywhere from 1-3 second from what I've observed), but they don't 'run for the hills!' while you're charging it up like before.
It's much more manageable now.

Godsbane · Nov 14, 2005, 01:01 AM // 01:01

Only thing i have to say is that items/weps etc in Pve are waayyy over priced in comparison to wut gold u get or items u get to see in a *FULL* group! not solo! therefore i will admit i was forced to farm! my only point is that how is farming bad? it is a means to futher urself in the game and it makes plenty of sense that someone would wana do that and thats all i have to say! i dont really like the new patch but not much i can do bout it!

Mesmerized · Nov 14, 2005, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draygo Korvan

Removing exploited abilities of AI's is a good thing. AI casters shouldnt try to cast through backfire or soul leech for instance, or stand in the middle of AOE's. Remember Anet isnt coding AI to operate just 7-10 weapons but an AI that can handle the cause and effect of over 450 skills.

EXACTLY my thoughts. The second that fix happened I thought oh hey they won't cast through backfire anymore darn.. BUT WAIT! Now it'll just give me a 10 second buffer in which THEY WON'T CAST PERIOD. Enemy monks just got easier.

AeroLion · Nov 14, 2005, 02:21 AM // 02:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godsbane

Only thing i have to say is that items/weps etc in Pve are waayyy over priced in comparison to wut gold u get or items u get to see in a *FULL* group!

You can get great weapons and offhands from the collectors. They may not look the way you want them to but that's the price of vanity.

Amused Observer · Nov 14, 2005, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

the devs have pointed out the invisimonk was never suppose to happen. this game has had tons of problems for one reason: the invisimonk.

the devs have this all planned out from the beggining. everything worked out then they release game. 3 weeks into game players find a way to solo and emass huge fortunes in a matter of days. people acually raced to 1 mil gold to see who could get it first. this overhelmed the econemy they had planned out. sent it into a downward spiral fast.

half of the problem was the stupid AI you were fighting. maybe if this update had been implemented first instead of skill nerfs pro bond might have been saved instead of a completely dead skill for pve and pvp. it used to be very powerful in pvp but after nerf due to pve it killed an otherwised unmatched skill for pvp. pvp turned to smiting and that got nerfed b/c it started to take over much like spirits did.

they can only playtest so much before it becomes a waste of time. you have to put it out there see how people react and the update on game. then tweak, tweak, tweak, till you get it right. if we had a better AI from the begginning players would have learned good tactics and stategy instead of just 1 strategy.

this game did a 180 from what the devs had planned for it since the release mostly thanx for to the invinsimonk. if the build had never been made less skills would have been nerfed. drops would still be good. people would team more. we would have monks that acually heal. econemy would have never crashed twice. most of the things that almost every pve player complains about was linked in some way shape or form to the invinsimonk. will i miss it no i will not.

You make an excellent observation regarding invicimonk. However, if during playtesting this problem never came up, then the problem lies w/ the playtesters, imo. AN should get new blood.

That said, invicimonk is part of GW now. And I'm sure many players will have a problem if AN continues to make drastic changes in gameplay, skills, what have you in order to kill invicimonks.

neoteo · Nov 14, 2005, 03:22 AM // 03:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadLep

Bye bye sweet meteor storm

not so fast my friend we can still ...

read this link

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...832#post672832

Amused Observer · Nov 14, 2005, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loralai

Wrong.

Effects of Patch on Group Farming:
1. Fire elementalists are often times being left out of groups for community-wide panic, or if they are allowed in a group, many of them are scared to utilize their fire (AoE based) skills.
2. Nothing is running smoothly in any groups I've tried. It's chaotic and even with called targets as soon as someone drops any AoE spells without previous snares (which is unavoidable in general PUGs), it's every player for themselves, as we all get a massive influx of something beating on our head. I'm not saying it's not different, not saying it's completely bad...just saying it's affected.
3. I don't even have to explain the problems with henchmen groups. That's has already been demonstrated by numerous posts.
* there are more I'm just too drained to start trying to think at the moment.

Effects of Patch on SoloFarming:
1. It's a little bit slower.

Excellent observation. I tried a bit of solo farming in lower level areas w/ my fire ele. Since I am the only target in the instanced area, it doesn't matter if mobs will scatter like chicken under aoes. As long as the healing rate for the mobs aren't obscenely high (like the axes in uw), I would still be able to kill them off. Also, having that scatter effect would buy my soloer time to recover a bit as well. The net effect of the Aoe-AI tweak on solofarming isn't bad enough to discourage solofarming. However, going w/ a group is hell for the reasons you stated here.

Siki · Nov 14, 2005, 03:29 AM // 03:29

This hasent made anything harder, battles just take longer and are more annoying. The fact that they dont attack whenever you cast an AOE spell means your not taking dmg while they flee. So dmg delt and damage received drops and you end up chasing each other around for a few minutes (even if you have wards and deep freeze going). Wow that sounds like fun. Smiting as pretty much been destroyed completely. They should raise the attack power of AOE spells since they hardly make contact anymore.

Amused Observer · Nov 14, 2005, 03:29 AM // 03:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robos Stavanis

The problem I am having with this update is not so much my character(s), but trying to keep the ele's in my guild playing. This is going to have a real impact if guilds start loosing folks that don't want to change the skill sets they are using to conform with this latest errr patch. I have yet to read a concise explaination why this was rolled out in the manner that it was.........and would still like to see that explaination as I am sure many would.

Excellent point. If I'm a low level ele in pve who is relying on firestorm and meteorshower to get through mobs w/ henchies, then this game change has obviously made life a lot more difficult for my character. I wouldn't be surprised to see players dropping GW in frustration.

neoteo · Nov 14, 2005, 03:36 AM // 03:36

since no one is reading my link , ill make another try copy pasting here

Echo Nuker Build in Sorrow Still Works

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Same old build

1 Stance Warrior

1 Prot Monk

1 Heal Monk

2 Echo Nukers

Its no so easy as before but still works

The " Box them now ! " tecnic

tank goes in , gets full agrro as before , then everyone box the mobs
make a circle arround them , block them so they cant move , and then
happy quadruple meteor shower ...

i tried this my selfe , it works ... sure you have to be carefull , but works.

---------------------

from the link on my last post ....

Xethrion · Nov 14, 2005, 03:41 AM // 03:41

I think it's amusing to see all these people cheering the death of the invincimonk.

The invincimonk is not dead. I'm still soloing UW as well as pre-patch. Granted, it might be slower. But the higher ecto prices more than offset the speed. *rofls*

Guardian of the Light · Nov 14, 2005, 03:46 AM // 03:46

Ok I've seen the affect of the update now and its not as bad as I thought at first.

1. OPPS I reacted too fast I think actually the fire echo nuker isn't dead.

2. My bad I haven't tested water ele so I won't call it but I'm hoping we get snarers (water eles) so I can sell my stupid flint wand.

3. Anet isn't going to like this but solo-Farming ISN'T dead you just need exploit new skills I have a feeling ppl are going find a nw griffon farming build and use the crap out of it just like the old farming build, just like when they nerfed IWAY.

Ok now that I've calmed down and I see everything straint I'm going to find this new farming build and use it for myself

. No nerfing this time.

Amused Observer · Nov 14, 2005, 03:49 AM // 03:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grammar

To be honest with you guys, I feel a little better about the update after the 11th tweak.

This is mainly because the added delay puts one-shot AOEs back in the picture for the most part (thank God).
The monster AI got a little better too; they finally do some actual avoiding instead of simply fleeing all the time. That said, the AI could definitely be further refined. It's still a little to erratic and chaotic whenever an AOE is cast.

I think I can adjust my elementalist to survive this.

My tank, however, will be the hardest hit. As soon as some idiot starts breaking out the duration AOEs (like firestorm), it gets ridiculously hard to tank as effectively as before. Like another user said, it turns into a game of pinball, chasing monsters around trying like crazy to get their aggro back on you.
One-shot AOEs I can deal with after the update, but people need to stop casting those damn duration AOEs now. All they do now is break monster aggro off the tanks and onto the casters.

If the 11/11th tweak stays as-is, I would argue that Warriors aren't as useful teammates to group with. Because once scattering has occurred, they'll have to chase after mobs in order to do some damage to them via melee. Maybe Rangers will be the new tanks.